Hello All,
Kindly suggest me what I could do for this issue, thanks in advance.
I purchased an agriculture land 1 year ago, We recently entered into an Agreement to sell the land. The present owner of the land is my Mother (land is registered in my mother's name) but the buyer paid 1 lakh rupees and took signature on the agreement paper by my Grandmother(not the owner of the land) who lives in the same village where the land is, because he didn't want to take any trouble coming to bangalore which is 140km from where he lives. We live in bangalore and our grandmother lives in the village where the land is there.
The land is 2.42 acre in total out of which 12 cents that touches the road has been mortgaged by previous owner in SBI bank for buying a Tractor 5 years ago, the bank took back the tractor, but the recurring interest hasn't been paid by the previous owner. We were informed this when we purchased the land and we were okay with it as the previous owner is making his own arrangements to pay the balance amount to the bank and willing to clear this mortgage on his expenses.
The entire land got registered in my mother's name without any issue, but the mortgage entry shows up in the encumbrance certificate. Which we are aware. Only 12 cents land is in bank mortgage and the other 2.30 acres is absolutely clean title.
Due to sudden requirement for money(health issues) we wanted to sell this land. Now the person to whom we are going to sell this land seems to be afraid of this mortgage issue and seems to be wanting to take his 1 lakh rupees amount back which he paid at the time he entered into agreement (signed the agreement paper). We got this buyer through a mediator, we informed the mediator months ago about the mortgage, but the mediator doesn't seem to have told the buyer about it and canceled this matter until the agreement is over for his commission, now the buyer says that he doesn't know about the mortgage and asking to reduce the sale amount.
Both the Mediator and Buyer asked us to visit the village last week for the land registration, we visited the village, after visiting, the buyer said first the survey of the land has to be done and that the surveyor will come only in the first week of february, I asked the buyer to go for the registration and take the survey at a later date when ever the surveyor comes but he didn't listen. So we returned back to home (bangalore). For survey we paid the mediator five thousand rupees.
Now the buyer and mediator are calling us again to visit the village for survey and land registration during first week of february.
For them it has become like a kids play calling us to visit when ever they like, my mother has health issues and she is quite old to travel again and again. And that I have to take leave from my work on loss of pay.
I am planning to tell him that once we(my mother and myself) already visited the village on my own expense as he(buyer) said that he will go for registration, that didn't happen anyways in our first visit. And now he is asking to visit once again.
How good is it to ask him(buyer) to pay for the transport charges for the next visit?
I wanted to ask this because, I am worried if he troubles my mother again and again asking to visit and not do the registration and insist on the survey to be taken first which is uncertain as government surveyor is not dependable and no guarantee if he(surveyor) visits promptly on the date that he gives.
Buyer got the Agreement paper written in Tamil which we don't know how to read, we don't even have a copy of it. They said the agreement is for 3 months duration. More over buyer took signature on the agreement paper from my grandmother who is not the owner of the land (my mother is the owner).
The buyer gave one lakh rupees to the mediator who deposited the amount in my grandmothers pension account through his bank account, which I later transferred to my account.
I want to sell the land to the buyer, but I want to know iincase he doesn't want to buy the land and if he wants to create me any problem, what could he possibly be able to do?
I am sure the agreement is not valid because he took signature from my grandmother who is not the legal owner of the land and is there any chance that the buyer would file a police case or court case against my grandmother?
What are the consequences?
Will I be able to sell this land to another part if the agreement period of 3 months elapses and would I be able to retain the 1 lakh rupees that the buyer paid at the time of agreement after 3 months is elapsed?
I don't want to trouble the buyer, I just want to sell him the land as I need money urgently.
What are the options for me.
Please help.
entered into Agreement but troubles going for Registration
Re: entered into Agreement but troubles going for Registrati
1) You collect a copy of the agreement, get it translated to your known language through a reliable/known person. Based on the content of the agreement, you can decide the best possible way to come out of your issue.
apart from that,
2) its better to meet the original seller and try to get the mortage issue settled and get the NOC from the BANK. If the amount is not very high, better to pay off from your hand and get it resolved for ever. This will make your life easier.
3) Since your Grand mother is neither actual owner nor a GPA holder, entering into a sale agreement to sell a property for which she doesn't have any rights, leads to Fraud/criminal charges against her, if the agreed buyer goes for legal action.
4) Unilaterally, you can't back out of the agreement for your personal reasons. In case you back out of the deal, then mutually you and the buyer need to compromise and you may have to compensate the losses as per the agreement.
5) no way you can ask for any kind of travelling expenses for your transaction, unless it is agreed during the sale agreement in written.
6) If distance is the concern, check out is there an option for registration in that state, like in karnataka for registering a property in any of the registrar office in that state, So that you can make the registration at a place of your convenience like Hosur.
7) Regarding the survey, either you or the buyer need to invest time/effort to get the land surved and document it. If the buyer takes the initiative, then you need to trust him and compensate the expenses. Since proving the stated dimensions of the intended property as per the document lies on you.
these are some of my personal opinion. After seeing the agreement content, consult a genuine legal advisor for better solution
apart from that,
2) its better to meet the original seller and try to get the mortage issue settled and get the NOC from the BANK. If the amount is not very high, better to pay off from your hand and get it resolved for ever. This will make your life easier.
3) Since your Grand mother is neither actual owner nor a GPA holder, entering into a sale agreement to sell a property for which she doesn't have any rights, leads to Fraud/criminal charges against her, if the agreed buyer goes for legal action.
4) Unilaterally, you can't back out of the agreement for your personal reasons. In case you back out of the deal, then mutually you and the buyer need to compromise and you may have to compensate the losses as per the agreement.
5) no way you can ask for any kind of travelling expenses for your transaction, unless it is agreed during the sale agreement in written.
6) If distance is the concern, check out is there an option for registration in that state, like in karnataka for registering a property in any of the registrar office in that state, So that you can make the registration at a place of your convenience like Hosur.
7) Regarding the survey, either you or the buyer need to invest time/effort to get the land surved and document it. If the buyer takes the initiative, then you need to trust him and compensate the expenses. Since proving the stated dimensions of the intended property as per the document lies on you.
these are some of my personal opinion. After seeing the agreement content, consult a genuine legal advisor for better solution
Re: entered into Agreement but troubles going for Registrati
Sure sir, I will inform them buyer to send a copy of the agreement to me and I will get it translated.
I met the original seller and the bank too in the past, original seller along with his other brothers kept another 8 acres of their property along with this 12 cents in mortgage. Original seller says that he will clear the mortgage but takes time. I approached the bank, bank says that all the 8 acre + 12 cents mortgage has to be cleared at a time and they will not be able to separate this to enable us paying only the partial amount to get only the 12 cents cleared from mortgage.
Regarding my Grand mother, if the buyer takes a legal action, would that be a court's civil case or a criminal case in which the person would be put behind bars?
The property was handovered to us by the original owner without any kind of survey done, but as the buyer asked us we said okay and paid Rs.5,000/- to the mediator to get the survey done. But the mediator says that We have to show the Original documents to the surveyor at the time of survey. And surveyor is not dependable, never know when he comes. This is where the problem is, I can't trust and put my original documents in the hands of the mediator and the land is about 140km from bangalore where I live, too far to make a trip again and again in a hope to see the surveyor.
What happens if the 3 months agreement period elapses, in this case would this agreement stay void and can i retain the 1 lakh rupees that is paid in advance? Either ways I don't want to retain somebodies money, I only want to deduct some amount for the expenditure and return the balance.
Looks like I am in deep trouble now.
I met the original seller and the bank too in the past, original seller along with his other brothers kept another 8 acres of their property along with this 12 cents in mortgage. Original seller says that he will clear the mortgage but takes time. I approached the bank, bank says that all the 8 acre + 12 cents mortgage has to be cleared at a time and they will not be able to separate this to enable us paying only the partial amount to get only the 12 cents cleared from mortgage.
Regarding my Grand mother, if the buyer takes a legal action, would that be a court's civil case or a criminal case in which the person would be put behind bars?
The property was handovered to us by the original owner without any kind of survey done, but as the buyer asked us we said okay and paid Rs.5,000/- to the mediator to get the survey done. But the mediator says that We have to show the Original documents to the surveyor at the time of survey. And surveyor is not dependable, never know when he comes. This is where the problem is, I can't trust and put my original documents in the hands of the mediator and the land is about 140km from bangalore where I live, too far to make a trip again and again in a hope to see the surveyor.
What happens if the 3 months agreement period elapses, in this case would this agreement stay void and can i retain the 1 lakh rupees that is paid in advance? Either ways I don't want to retain somebodies money, I only want to deduct some amount for the expenditure and return the balance.
Looks like I am in deep trouble now.
Re: entered into Agreement but troubles going for Registrati
Verification of papers genuinity & survey of the land w.r.to the records is the responsibility of the Buyer. Unknowingly u might have ignored this. Hence you have landed in this issue.
When the 3 months agreement period expires, whoever party fails to execute the transaction, is liable for penalty ranging from 5% to 100% of the initial down payment or so + anything extra as per the sale agreement clause. In this case, as you are breaching the contract. Hence, you have to pay the penalty.
Fraud cases will be registered in the Crime Branch section of the Police, which is the most corrupt section in our police System. In order to settle the issue, they may demand any amount. Hence its not fair to trouble your grandmother. Better to go for mutual settlement with the buyer with certain loss.
When the 3 months agreement period expires, whoever party fails to execute the transaction, is liable for penalty ranging from 5% to 100% of the initial down payment or so + anything extra as per the sale agreement clause. In this case, as you are breaching the contract. Hence, you have to pay the penalty.
Fraud cases will be registered in the Crime Branch section of the Police, which is the most corrupt section in our police System. In order to settle the issue, they may demand any amount. Hence its not fair to trouble your grandmother. Better to go for mutual settlement with the buyer with certain loss.
Re: entered into Agreement but troubles going for Registrati
I think your best option is to divide the 2.42 acres into 2.3 acres and .12 acres and sell 2.3 acres with an agreement to sell .12 acres when the loan is cleared. You will get 2 different RTCs.This way you can retain the loan on .12 acres.
Re: entered into Agreement but troubles going for Registrati
ramashome, it appears you messed up big time by not paying attention when you purchased the land. You should have thought about at least basic things like getting survey done before you purchased, getting the mortgage cleared from the original owner, how were you going to deal with the property related transactions if stayed so far etc. It appears that you are purchasing land in Tamilnadu, staying in Bangalore. The best options for you now is to do as TVSH suggested or give a GPA to some trusted person in your village who can handle all the surveyor interactions, registrations etc so that you don't have to travel every time.
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keshavachandras
- Posts: 55
- Joined: March 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Re: entered into Agreement but troubles going for Registrati
As far as I know any agreement would have value only if the parties involved are capable of entering into agreement. In this case; the agreement was made with your Grandmother and not with your mother - so in the first instance the agreement on ground rules has no significance unless your grandmother had a GPA to eneter into agreements on your behalf;Buyer got the Agreement paper written in Tamil which we don't know how to read, we don't even have a copy of it. They said the agreement is for 3 months duration. More over buyer took signature on the agreement paper from my grandmother who is not the owner of the land (my mother is the owner).
Secondly does your grandmother understands Tamil? Read and write? - if she does not then was there a translator present at the time of agreement? and was there two copies of the agreement made in languages that is understood by both your grandmother and the buyer?
If this was not done then even the agreement made with your grandmother has no value and should be declared Null and Void on ground rules since your grandmother did not meet the minimum requirement for getting into an agreement.
An advocate should be able to give your more inputs once they gothrough the agreement. If you are really keen on going through the sale then take sometime and finish the formalities; make sure .12 cents are clear you do not want to be running behind for it again.
Re: entered into Agreement but troubles going for Registrati
Sir,
Thank you very much for all your replies, I appreciate your valuable time and guidance.
My grandmother does not have GPA(power of attorney) to eneter into agreements on behalf of my mother who is the actual owner of the Land.
My Grandmother can only speak Tamil, she can't read or write tamil. She can read write and speak Telugu only. But she was born and lived in tamil nadu for 16 years.
The previous land owner who kept the 12 cents under bank mortiguage is already in the process of clearing the 12 cents, it will take some time for him to arrange money, it should happen within an year or two. After taking the money from me the previous owner is not at all bothered to respond to my phone calls. But he still have to clear the 12 cents land because along with this 12 cents land he also kept his 8 acre coconut farm under mortiguage. So he is already in the process of pooling up his money to repay the bank.
The land is a straight rectangle and there are farm bunds that separate our land from the neighboring lands. The previous owner would have taken the survey when he was a owner, I have seen one or two survey stones at the border of the land, but I am not very sure.
For 12 cents land, I took risk and bought the land, I was very well aware of the mortgagee. We bought it still, because apart from the 12 cents the previous owner also kept his 8 acres of coconut farm under mortgage for buying the tractor as a whole. So I assumed that when he clears his mortgage, my 12 cents will also be automatically cleared. That was the safety I was thinking about.
I already visited the village as the mediator and the buyer asked us to visit during last week saying that land survey and land registration will be over and that they have the cash in full to pay us. After visiting the village they said they don't have money and the surveyer also didn't come. To prove that we visited the village during last week, I kept all the bus tickets with me.
Is it mandatory that survey needs to be done, unless otherwise specified in the agreement? Which we are yet to see a Copy, the buyer hasn't given or sent us a copy of the agreement.
The land has farm bunds, and some survey stones either arranged by the previous owner or the neighboring land owner.
Can I ask them to go for the registration directly without waiting for the survey thing, because the surveyors are not dependable government officials.
Thank you very much for all your replies, I appreciate your valuable time and guidance.
My grandmother does not have GPA(power of attorney) to eneter into agreements on behalf of my mother who is the actual owner of the Land.
My Grandmother can only speak Tamil, she can't read or write tamil. She can read write and speak Telugu only. But she was born and lived in tamil nadu for 16 years.
The previous land owner who kept the 12 cents under bank mortiguage is already in the process of clearing the 12 cents, it will take some time for him to arrange money, it should happen within an year or two. After taking the money from me the previous owner is not at all bothered to respond to my phone calls. But he still have to clear the 12 cents land because along with this 12 cents land he also kept his 8 acre coconut farm under mortiguage. So he is already in the process of pooling up his money to repay the bank.
The land is a straight rectangle and there are farm bunds that separate our land from the neighboring lands. The previous owner would have taken the survey when he was a owner, I have seen one or two survey stones at the border of the land, but I am not very sure.
For 12 cents land, I took risk and bought the land, I was very well aware of the mortgagee. We bought it still, because apart from the 12 cents the previous owner also kept his 8 acres of coconut farm under mortgage for buying the tractor as a whole. So I assumed that when he clears his mortgage, my 12 cents will also be automatically cleared. That was the safety I was thinking about.
I already visited the village as the mediator and the buyer asked us to visit during last week saying that land survey and land registration will be over and that they have the cash in full to pay us. After visiting the village they said they don't have money and the surveyer also didn't come. To prove that we visited the village during last week, I kept all the bus tickets with me.
Is it mandatory that survey needs to be done, unless otherwise specified in the agreement? Which we are yet to see a Copy, the buyer hasn't given or sent us a copy of the agreement.
The land has farm bunds, and some survey stones either arranged by the previous owner or the neighboring land owner.
Can I ask them to go for the registration directly without waiting for the survey thing, because the surveyors are not dependable government officials.
Re: entered into Agreement but troubles going for Registrati
I think since you are new to the process of buying and selling farm lands,you are being taken for a ride. You can get private surveyors to do the survey. The buyer needs to know if the area of the land is the same as mentioned in the RTC. Once this is confirmed and since the farm boundaries are clear as per your knowledge, there should not be any dispute with the neightbors.
I am still not clear on how you can say that the mortgage is only for the 12 cents of land, if the land is not divided. If the RTC shows 2.42 acres, then the bank has mortgage on the entire extent of the land and not 12 cents.This is what is preventing the buyer from buying your land.
I am still not clear on how you can say that the mortgage is only for the 12 cents of land, if the land is not divided. If the RTC shows 2.42 acres, then the bank has mortgage on the entire extent of the land and not 12 cents.This is what is preventing the buyer from buying your land.
Re: entered into Agreement but troubles going for Registrati
tvsh sir,
Thank you very much for sparing your time in helping, I appreciate it.
The land is a straight rectangle with two survey numbers, one survey number was owned by Father and the other survey number was owned by Daughters previously.
the 12 cents land is one survey number and 2.30 acres is another survey number, both of them together form one straight bit of rectangle shaped land.
The father (previous owner), kept this 12 cents land under mortgage along with his 8 acre coconut farm in a different location.
I checked the Encumbrance certificate for both the survey numbers that were sold to us, I mean for both 12 cents and 2.30 acres. 2.30 acre land is clean, only the 12 cents has mortgage, it is evident in the encumbrance certificate.
I once took a Big tape and measured the land myself, the land measures exactly the same as per the measurement specified in the Sale Deed. That means the survey is done? and can I ask the buyer to measure it if he doubts?
Can the buyer penalize me later that is after the 3 months of the agreement period elapses saying that I have not taken the survey and due to that he did not go for land registration? Matter of fact I already visited the village once and have all the bus tickets etc. with me to prove that I visited.
They called us for land registration and I already took leave from my office in loss of pay and visited, but he doesn't seem to be serious, after visiting, he started saying that he doesn't have money ready and asked us to come back in february once again.
I am worried because, this visit again and again can't continue forever, because I am a salaried employee and I cant take leave on loss of pay again and again without any certainty. That is the worry.
Thank you very much for sparing your time in helping, I appreciate it.
The land is a straight rectangle with two survey numbers, one survey number was owned by Father and the other survey number was owned by Daughters previously.
the 12 cents land is one survey number and 2.30 acres is another survey number, both of them together form one straight bit of rectangle shaped land.
The father (previous owner), kept this 12 cents land under mortgage along with his 8 acre coconut farm in a different location.
I checked the Encumbrance certificate for both the survey numbers that were sold to us, I mean for both 12 cents and 2.30 acres. 2.30 acre land is clean, only the 12 cents has mortgage, it is evident in the encumbrance certificate.
I once took a Big tape and measured the land myself, the land measures exactly the same as per the measurement specified in the Sale Deed. That means the survey is done? and can I ask the buyer to measure it if he doubts?
Can the buyer penalize me later that is after the 3 months of the agreement period elapses saying that I have not taken the survey and due to that he did not go for land registration? Matter of fact I already visited the village once and have all the bus tickets etc. with me to prove that I visited.
They called us for land registration and I already took leave from my office in loss of pay and visited, but he doesn't seem to be serious, after visiting, he started saying that he doesn't have money ready and asked us to come back in february once again.
I am worried because, this visit again and again can't continue forever, because I am a salaried employee and I cant take leave on loss of pay again and again without any certainty. That is the worry.